Tuesday, February 26, 2008

Separation, Church and State, part 4

We were at the dinner table that night just finishing up on one of grandma’ delicious meals and having dessert that she had fixed for the meal when grandpa had this to say on the subject we had been discussing;

"For those who find meaning from the words written in the Constitution another element must be considered before we can call this nation as being a nation under God. We are a nation made up of fifty States and we must see it from that point also.

The best way to see it is by the examination of the Constitutions of the States. In examination of them, we find only W. Virginia as having a Constitution with no mention of God. So, forty-nine States recognizes God in one form or the other in their Constitutions. And in every case the use of the word is singular in form.

And in a great many of them, not only is the word used it is worded in such a manner that declares a belief in His existence. Thus, this places those States under God by the nature of the words used. So, the question becomes how can a nation not be a nation under God if the States that it is made up of declare that they be under God? The last time I heard the whole is always the sum of its parts.

To me, for someone to say otherwise is to place their own ideology above that which they say is the foundation of their ideology. Also, to say that it is unconstitutional to recognize the fact that we are a nation under God then we must say that every State constitution except one is also unconstitutional. Now which is it? Are we a nation under God as determined by the people along with the States, thus should be acknowledged or is it to be questioned and declared otherwise by the determination of only nine people sitting the bench of the United States Supreme Court?"

I just nodded and said "thank you, grandpa." Then I looked at grandma with pleading eyes hoping she would allow me to have some more dessert.


dcat said...


I can't think of a darn thing to argue about Griper.

Gayle said...

Griper, that's a most excellent point! I wasn't even aware of the fact that 49 states had "under God" in their Constitutions. Thank you.

The Griper said...

they don't have "under God" in them gayle. they all contain the word God in them. and a great many declare their gratitude to Him in their preambles.

The Griper said...

i hope i covered enough of the bases so that my argument on this issue is persuasive yet not sound ideological.

Jubilee on Earth said...

Hey, there... I'm glad you finally spoke up! I would've never found you or read this if you hadn't.

I just read all four parts, and found it to be very interesting. And I have to agree with pretty much all that was written. I guess that's why I have such a hard time with voting. In one of the very early debates, George Bush appeared as a surprise and asked each of the (several, at that time) candidates "What drives your belief system? What inside of your guides you to stand for what you believe in and make decisions that are the right ones?" (Paraphrased)

How disappointing was it that not one darn candidate simply spoke up and said, "God." They each stumbled a bit and finally went on to talk about their platform and where they stood on issues, etc. But not one of them just said "God." I don't know... I guess they were afraid of offending someone. But if what you're saying is true -- and I believe it is - then they would've only offended about 10% of the U.S. population. Why is God SO taboo when almost all of us believe there is one?

I don't know the answer to that. I guess it's because the candidates are all afraid to muddy up that convoluted church/state rule. I'll tell you what, though. The first presidential candidate that comes right out and says very firmly that God is his life and his belief in God is what drives him, I'll be there in line every time to vote for him/her.

Anyway, glad to find you, Griper. I'm going to go poke around your blog a bit more.


The Griper said...


you also need to remember Geo. Bush's answer to the question of who did they think was the greatest philosopher? his answer was Jesus.


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