Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Obama and Bill Ayers

Let’s take a good look at Obama’s associates by starting out with Bill Ayers. He and his wife were radicals in the deepest sense of the word. Their beliefs were such that their group actually declared war on this nation. They went so far as to actually commit acts of war for a number of years. There can be no doubt of their intent of overthrowing this government and installing one in accordance to their beliefs. In essence, they thought they could impose their way of life upon us. I’ll leave it up to you to decide what that government would be if they would have succeeded and if you would willingly submit to its rule.

They did not succeed though and ended up turning themselves in to the authorities. They were charged with crimes against the state but because of improper procedures were freed by a judge. This does not make them any less guilty of the crimes committed and we must remember that when we think of this man and his wife.

Some have claimed that Bill Ayers is a reformed man and they point to his behavior since then as proof of this claim. That is not good enough for me and I hope that it is not good enough for you also. I say this because how we interpret what a man does is not necessarily a reflection of his philosophy. It is a reflection upon our judgement though. If we accept the possibility that his philosophy has not changed then his changed behavior is nothing but a change of tactics. His goal remains the same. We must never forget what his goal was or still is. It is his goals for this nation and state that defines him as he is. I have not seen or read anything that would convince me that his goals for you and me have changed.

We must also remember that one belief of radicalism is that the end justifies the means. It is from this belief that to achieve one’s goals justifies any means used, even terrorism if it calls for that. If that doesn’t force people to submit then it calls for a different tactic. So, before I’ll call someone reformed I first need to ascertain whether or not what a person does is really reformation or just a change of tactics.

What leads me to believe that Bill Ayers has not reformed? It is Barack Obama himself. If you look and study his associations, you will find they all have a commonality, radicalism. Moreover, these associations did not begin as an adult but as a child in his most formative years. There seems to be nobody in his life that can be declared as an influence in any other direction.

Birds of a feather flock together is an old saying and reflects upon the idea that men do exactly that. They associate with those they have a commonality with. Barack Obama has had too many associations throughout his life for me to accept that he does not share the same goals in spite of what he says and wants us to believe. His own words about Bill Ayers belie him.

He called Bill Ayers as being someone who lives a few blocks away and that they never exchanged ideas. Are you going to try to convince me of that when they have had a very close working relationship for all those years? A relationship, I might add, that required trust of each other. And given the nature of that relation there is no doubt that there had to be a political trust in each other that can only come from a common political belief. The very programs that they worked together on would indicate a commonality of political belief.

He has disassociated himself from the criminal actions of Bill Ayers by declaring that he was 8 years old when it happened. This is a misleading statement. What he actually is saying is that he was 8 years old when the criminal acts began. What he fails to reveal is his age when the last criminal act of the Weathermen was committed and where he was when it was committed. He’d also have you believe by that statement, through implication, that he never found out of the Weathermen activities all of these years of association with him. If he did know then that implies that Obama did not think it was relevant anymore. That, you’ll have to convince me of and I’m afraid that is going to be very hard to do.

Is this enough to convince you or me of the radical nature of Obama’s beliefs? Maybe yes, maybe not but it should be enough to make us think twice before seeking to elect the man as the President of the United States. It should be enough for us to more closely examine the man before making up our minds in regards to this election. He himself gave us the reason and that reason is the changes he says he wants to make. To what extent, politically speaking, does he want to change this nation and state? More important is how far will he go to implement these changes.

I only know one thing. Just the suggestiveness of the possibility of change leads me to want to know more about him and his associations. Is that enough for you to join me in that search? There seems to be many in this nation that look at Obama and see nothing but good in him. There is no man that is as good as his followers have portrayed Obama and that in itself scares me enough to need to learn more about him. I would hate to think that this is one of those times in history, as Lincoln said, when all the people were fooled part of the time.

We will be electing a man to an office of government that gives him the highest of security clearance. Can we, the people, afford not to scrutinize the man we elect to that office?

here is a video that might add more to what I have said:


Kathryn said...

It is amazing to me that this relationship has not gotten the attention and questioning it deserves. You can bet your boots that if McCain had that relationship people would never shut up about it. And they shouldn't! It is clear Obama is not being honest. And that is so scary.
That video just freaks me out. I am sending it on to everyone I know.
Thank you for this post. It is so well written and informed. You will be my post of the week on Saturday, for sure. Thank you!

And, on a completely unrelated note, thank you for the comment on my post. I laughed out loud. You are hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. And thanks for the comment. :)

The Griper said...

welcome to my home in cyberspace, kathryn. if you enjoyed my post then it was my pleasure to write it.

as for my comment, i just couldn't see everyone in a blah mood. i'm glad you enjoyed it.

Myself said...

wonderful blog, I really enjoyed reading it.
An it is SO true.

Gayle said...

Hi, Griper.

It is very important we judge the character of a person by their associations. Crooks run around with other crooks, dope peddlers run around with other dope peddlers, and radicals run around with other radicals. Is Obama a radical and a crook? Let's not forget Tony Rezko.

Excellent video!

Gayle said...

Griper, I missed the "Let it Snow" video the first time I was here. Thanks for that! I love that song, it's one of my favorites. :)

BB-Idaho said...

To be helpful, "reveal is his age when the last criminal act of the Weathermen was committed and where he was when it was committed."
1. 12 years old. 2. Honolulu :)

The Griper said...

the last criminal act attributed to them was in 1981 when they robbed a brinks truck. and since Obama was born in 1961 that would make him 20 not 12. and he was in new york at the time. now, granted we can get technical about it in a couple of different ways.
1. by saying that the organization broke up before then and that "former" members did the job. but they are still referenced by the fact they were members of the weatherman org.
2. you still will find web references connecting the word weatherman and the brinks robbery.

so, yes, i did not word it as correctly as it should have been worded there but the point remains the same. the implication of the lack of knowledge and Ayers role is questionable at best based on his age.
will you agree with that?

BB-Idaho said...

My understanding was the group withered away by 1973...the VN war being their raison d'état. Tis interesting and satisfying to me,
having been an explosives professional, that many were the victims of their own bombs. You may be right, some became criminals of the more common type after that. The non-conspiracy belief is that Obama & Ayres first met in 1995, summed by,"William C. Ibershof, the lead federal prosecutor of the Weather Underground case noted, "I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child." Obama was in college in
LA 1979-81 and Columbia U until 1983, remaining in NYC until 1987.
Not sure where all the 'violent hippies' were during that span...

The Griper said...

i got my info from the wikipedia.


if you go down to the head of "dissolution" you'll see what i was saying. last paragraph.

BB-Idaho said...

Griper, while some people denigrate wikipedia as biased/inaccurate, I find it a great place to start..they list all their references and one can explore from there. Now, in self-defense, regarding 1967, I was working 60 hour weeks at the Twin City Army Ammunition Plant..and
had no contact whatsoever with Ayres or Obama. :)

The Griper said...

i'm just printing what i reasd also bb. lol

and like you i try to find other sources to back up regardless of how credible a source is accepted.

i don't consider any source as being 100% accurate. may be that is the pessimist in me too, huh? :)

The WordSmith from Nantucket said...

I think one of the main issues is the nature of their relationship on CAC and the Woods Fund. Ayers is admittedly unrepentant in his world view and past terror acts; he seems to have seen something special in Obama, and they funneled tons of money not toward real education, but toward political allies. Ayers expressed he wanted to use education as a means for political radicalization.

Does Obama share Ayers views on the purpose of education?

ACORN was a recipient of grants from the Woods Funds:

So what does the CAC have to do with ACORN? Remember that political agenda that contributed to the failed experiment? The way that money got to the political operatives that Ayers (as the strategy CAC leader) and Obama (as the CAC money man) wanted to support was thru community organizing groups… and included ACORN.

CONCLUSION? We have Obama’s money handling supporting ACORN not only thru Woods Fund, but also thru the CAC. We also have his personal involvement with ACORN as an organizer trainer. We have proof that he used his legal career - both personally and as an employee - to support keeping risky loans alive and well.

Obama is directly linked to those key to our economic crisis we have today.

The Griper said...

follow the money as they say, Word. i agree.

Karen Deborah said...

I remember learning in gradeschool that the Communists considered us a Paper Tiger. They vowed years ago to destroy us from within. It seems they are positioned for a death blow now. What is incredible to me is how much worse the threat is than communism. Our country as we know it stands on the brink.

The Griper said...

welcome to my home karen. we have always stood on the brink karen. a nation that uses a democratic system of choosing their leaders is the most vulnerable of nations to change.

and that in itself is enough to know we must be informed when we vote.

msladydeborah said...

I'm going to touch on this subject very carefully.

I know a participant in the Brinks Robbery. No, I did not know that individual was planning such an event.

In fact, when I met the person, they were living underground and using an alias. It wasn't until after the arrests were made that who they were came to light.

I also know a lot about radical politics. I practiced them for years. And I have no problem stating that I did so. But I am going to also say this.

Many people of color who are radical often find that people like Ayers are a bigger hinderance to a cause than help. Their views on class and race are often not as progressive as they would lke to believe that they are. I have always thought of Ayers as being a rich kid who decided to join up in a movement that provided him with the element of danger and purpose that seemed to be lacking in his life at that time. I can name at least 20 people that I know personally who came from the same background as Ayers who considered/consider their politics to be extremely radical. But their politics and actions do no balance out. Given a choice they will revert to their class background and upbringing.

I always find it interesting that people assume if a black man leads the nation that there is going to be a majo take over by black people. Or some form of change that goes beyond the scope of the great American way. Why?

IMHO, if we wanted to take over the nation, electing a POTUS, is definitely not the route that I would advocate. The whole process takes too long and consumes up too many resources. :-)

I have no problem with people looking into the Ayers/Obama relationship. Being informed is important. However, I am willing to bet my red book that you really won't see fearful radicalism rising up from Obama. He's got the weight of being the first on his shoulders. Which is something that millions of black people know about. It doesn't give you a whole lot of room to do a lot of crazy stuff because of the policing that gooes on in the culture. Believe me, if the firsts could openly discuss the weight of that number and the impact that it has on life, you may be surprised to know how heavy the do the right thing factor is.

The Griper said...

Obama is just a man, Deb. and as a man he will not be a first but one following in the footsteps of 40 plus other men.

what bothers me is what the "right thing" that is in his mind.

Anonymous said...

Excellent post! Bill Ayers was more than just a guy who lived in his neighborhood, that's for sure.

And I'm really glad to see that you brought up the fact that Obama was only 8 years old when Ayers' criminal acts STARTED; the problem is that he was 40 years old when he worked with Ayers, and when the Weatermen were still active.

Great job!

Roxy Wishum said...

Thanks for the clear thinking. Obama has been involved in divisive groups and behavior all his life and now claims a desire to unify the nation. Why would anyone believe that? As THE DAY nears, more and more people will probably begin to have doubts. It is going to be a very interesting week next week.

Shaw Kenawe said...

It can now be said that Sarah Palin palled around with a 7-count indicted felon--Ted Stevens.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin began building clout in her state's political circles in part by serving as a director of an independent political group organized by the now embattled Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens.

Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.

Palin's relationship with Alaska's senior senator may be one of the more complicated aspects of her new position as Sen. John McCain's running mate; Stevens was indicted in July 2008 on seven counts of corruption

And John McCain was a pal of American domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy.

The Chicago Tribune is pointing out McCain's own radical associations with G. Gordon Liddy:

How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns--including $1,000 this year.

Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

For those who are unaware, Liddy helped plan the Watergate break-in that would cost Nixon his presidency and landed Liddy a four-year jail sentence.

But Liddy's career of inflammatory statements and actions exceed his Watergate actions.

Liddy, on Vitenam:

"I wanted to bomb the Red River dykes [sic]. It would have drowned half the country and starved the other half. There would have been no way the Viet Cong could have operated if we had the will-power to do that."

Liddy, advising Branch Davidians how to defend themselves from ATF agents during a radio show:

"If the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms insists upon a firefight, give them a firefight. Just remember, they're wearing flak jackets and you're better off shooting for the head."

Liddy, on the impact Adolf Hitler had on him as a child:

When he listened to Hitler on the radio, it "made me feel a strength inside I had never known before," he explains. "Hitler's sheer animal confidence and power of will [entranced me]. He sent an electric current through my body."

Let's cut the crap with this guilt by association, okay?

Obama does not endorse domestic or international terrorism and the right's trying to label him as a friend of terrorists is nuts.

And the American people aren't buying it.

The Griper said...

the issue of the post, shaw, is the relationship between Sen. Obama and Bill Ayers and neither Sen McCain nor Gov. Palin are the issue being discussed. since you are attempting too mislead us then i can only assume that you are in agreement with all that was said in the post or else you would have pointed out the fallacies of my argument as presented.


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