Wednesday, March 26, 2008

An Occupation Force or Ally

I saw grandpa get up from the computer and in anger or frustration, as he calls it, turn the computer off then just sit back down, eyes filled with fire. I knew that this was one of those times to appear to be invisible and just wait until he was ready to talk. I knew that in time he would use me as a sounding board to relief his feelings so I just sat there beside him until he spoke. When ready, his eyes still ablaze, his tone harsh, this is what he had to say,

"I just get sick and tired of hearing the foolishness of people who keep calling the coalition armed forces in Iraq as an occupation force in order to promote their own ideology in regards to the war there. Their continued use of the phrase can only be attributed to their ignorance of the political or military definition of the phrase. If not, then it can only be attributed to the fact they would need to admit they would need to change their viewpoint of the war which they are loathed to do. Either way it is a dishonest and misleading argument.

The definition of the phrase would be an armed force of a country that declared war on another country and defeated that country. Upon victory that armed force would be considered as the de facto government of the people of the defeated country, thus in control of it. For this definition to meet all the criteria of an occupation force it would involve the overthrow of the sitting government. It is with the overthrow of that government that victory may be declared and the victors declared as occupying a country.

In other words it means more than just the fact that an armed force is within the boundaries of another nation. And it means more than the fact that an armed force of another country is within a country and is unpopular with the people of that country. The best way to describe it is to say that the country has lost its sovereignty and no longer can be declared as a self-ruled country.

This can no longer be declared of either Iraq or Afghanistan. Both governments were governments as chosen by the people of their respective countries and not by the government of the victors. If the governments of either country were governments as determined by the victors then yes that country would still be an occupied nation, by definition. And as the occupation force the United States had the right to do that. But, instead, President Bush decided to allow the people of each nation to choose their own leaders.

They are recognized by the world as the legitimate governments of the countries over which they rule. They both are recognized as countries that are sovereign and self-ruled. And as the recognized governments they have the power and authority to speak on behalf of the people as does the government of all nations that are considered as legitimate governments.

It is also recognized that the government, as installed by the people of Iraq, has asked that we remain in Iraq to help in their fight against the insurgency that is trying to overthrow the present government. With that request the coalition forces can no longer be declared as an occupation force by definition. It can only be properly recognized as an ally and partner in the fight against the insurgency. The government could have very easily have demanded that the coalition forces leave the country and we would have been obligated to comply with that demand. That is one of the conditions that we agreed to and recognized by the determination of the U.N. Security Council.

But what gets my goat even more is the fact that the opposing side of the issue permits them to call it an occupation force without challenge. By doing so they are legitimizing the argument presented. It is a term that needs correction immediately if one is to win the debate in regards to this issue."

I just smiled as he finished his tirade and just meekly said, "yes, grandpa." Some how I always seem to feel better after he does this. I don’t know why I do but I do.


Marie's Two Cents said...

I am off topic here,

but thank you for visiting my blog.

You bring some sense to it that I usually dont get except from some of the people we both know :-)

You are welcome anytime, and if you dont care I would like to link to you.

But one question: You have comment moderation AND word verification? lol Why?

The Griper said...


thank you for the nice compliment

comment moderation is on so that i know when a comment has been made. can determine if it abides by my rules or not before publishing it. haven't had any problems yet but there is always a first time. it also allows me to see comments made on past posts that i may not check on.

as for word verification, i don't know. lolol don't even know what it does. shucks almighty, i'm still a young'un in diapers when it comes to this blogging stuff. lolol

The Griper said...

ok, word verification off, marie. figured out what it was used for. dahhh. lolol

Average American said...

Another fine post Griper. I also get quite perturbed when I see "occupation forces" every where you look. We haven't been an "occupier" since the first election, you know, purple finger day!


The Griper said...

average american,

yes, purple finger day, was a picture still etched into my mind. that one photo said more than a thousand words could ever say.

and what really made it significant was that they voted in such large numbers in spite of the threats, very real threats of death, made by the insurgency.

that in itself declared that the people of Iraq rejected the ideas of the insurgency in my mind.

Goat said...

Great post Grandpa Griper, I believe it was Paul Bremer that started calling it an occupation force and the jihadis and insurgent monnbats just ran with it.
Comments can be sent to your email even without moderation, the word verification just stops blog spammers but blogger has largely eliminated them as it is. Moderation is to keep trolls from overrunning a comment section as has happened to me.

The Griper said...

yes goat, and when paul bremer was there the phrase was justified but it no longer is. that is why it needs to be challenged when used now.

and thank you for the explanation. just means i'm in training pants now. lolol

Gayle said...

You make an excellent point in this post, Griper!

You are wise to keep comment moderation on. I've been overrun with trolls too. They got so bad they were taking over the comment threads of all my posts, that's why I've had comment moderation on for nearly three years.

Goat said...

We are and were a liberation force and never an occpation force and Bremer was one of the major reasons/causes for most of the multiple early mistakes we made after Saddam was toppled. He screwed up and bad, no doubt about that and I have been a supporter of the war from the beginning.

The Griper said...

yes, i agree, we are and were a liberation force but we were also was an occupational force also.

one element of the definition is that once a government was overthrown, the occupation force acts as an interim government until a new government can be installed.

and it was during this period we could be defined as an occupational force. this does not take anything away from the fact we were a liberation force.

we were an occupation force in germany after that government fell as well as in japan.

we were an occupation force in the south after Lee surrendered. that is never mentioned in history books though. it is called the "Reconstruction era."

Lista said...

I agree with what you said in this posting and also the one after it (the next post up). I didn't comment on the next post up because I didn't feel like reading 47 comments, though you made some really good points in that post. I hope I'm not too far down in your blog, causing you scrolling fatigue. Sorry! I'm just trying to get to know you a little and have decided that I do like your blog, so I guess I will be by on occasion.

BTW, what are trolls?

The Griper said...

he smiles,, nah, lista you are not. having moderation on i can go straight to the post you comment in.


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