Grandpa then put down his paper and looked straight at me as he said, "boy, there are two things that God is not seen as being the cause of, Himself and man’s state of being in sin. ‘Tis man himself that is the cause of the necessity of salvation. And that necessity had to be an offering that was of innocence and perfection of being and existence. This is what we call the Lamb of God.
Man of his own free will chose to act without God. It is his finiteness of being that prevents man from regaining his former state of existence with God by himself. It is his own finite being that required the help of the perfect being so that man can be with God once more. Given that all is possible but only one is a necessity. We know that necessity came into being with the birth of the Christ. And that necessity is what we call God. And that perfect being is what we call God. Thus God is not only the first Cause He is also the first Effect for God is as He is.
The only conclusion that can be seen from this arguement is that God cannot exist for there can be no prior cause if He be the first cause. Yet we see that there must be."
Grandpa then went back to reading his paper leaving me stunned at what he was saying. I turned to grandma with an alarmed look on my face and she just smiled as she said, "yes, your grandfather believes that God exists."
WELCOMES YOU to his little home in cyberspace.
Monday, March 12, 2007
Thursday, March 08, 2007
Rebuttal of Aquinas's "Five Proofs" (part 1)
I was reading a blog on the computer where Thomistic, the owner of the blog Roman Catholic Blog was presenting St. Thomas Aquinas’s five proofs that God existed by the use of reason alone. I thought he had seemed to prove it. So, I asked gramps his idea of it. Gramps never looked up from the paper he was reading as he said;
"Boy, if man could prove by reason alone that God existed there would be no need of Faith. Faith is a necessity for a belief in God. It is the fact that reason alone is not capable of it that there is a saying that faith begins where reason ends. But at the same time faith alone cannot be enough for a belief in God. It requires the use of reason too. The two are inseparable. And both are finite also.
The first two proofs use the cause and effect method to show proof. The idea was to show that God is not only is an Existence but also is a Being. St. Thomas tries to use a regression to prove this by declaring we can know that God exist by the Effect. Where there is a known effect there must be a prior Cause. The problem here is that in using a regressive argument we can then see it as a progressive argument for any rebuttal.
The third tries to declare God is a necessity from the basis of all things possible. And that He is the first necessity. The fourth that God is a perfection. The fifth that God is an intelligent being.
Thus, we have a progressive argument from the idea that God is an existence to one that God is a necessary and perfect intelligent existence of being. And that He is the cause of all things inclusive of Existance except for Himself.
The only thing that was not considered was the fact of his infinity and man’s finiteness of being.
Man lives in a finite state of existence.
The best way to define this is in the fact that we live in state of existence of a beginning and end. All that is finite has a beginning and end. And that includes all things of existence or being. And all that can be conceived is finite even our thoughts. Every thought has a beginning and end. One more thing, wherever we know of an end we know there must be a beginning. All that we know that has a beginning must have an end.
God, though, always was; God always is; and God always will be. And what can be said of the God that always was can be said of God that always is. And what can be said of God that always will be can be said of God that always is too. Thus if anything that effects one it would effect the others also. That is one basis which we can use to view Him as a Triunity. Therefore, not only would God be the first Cause He would also have to be the first Effect by the nature of His being and existance.
Now, boy, can you think of anything that would make God the first Effect?"
That really got me to thinking and I could not think of anything. Can you?
"Boy, if man could prove by reason alone that God existed there would be no need of Faith. Faith is a necessity for a belief in God. It is the fact that reason alone is not capable of it that there is a saying that faith begins where reason ends. But at the same time faith alone cannot be enough for a belief in God. It requires the use of reason too. The two are inseparable. And both are finite also.
The first two proofs use the cause and effect method to show proof. The idea was to show that God is not only is an Existence but also is a Being. St. Thomas tries to use a regression to prove this by declaring we can know that God exist by the Effect. Where there is a known effect there must be a prior Cause. The problem here is that in using a regressive argument we can then see it as a progressive argument for any rebuttal.
The third tries to declare God is a necessity from the basis of all things possible. And that He is the first necessity. The fourth that God is a perfection. The fifth that God is an intelligent being.
Thus, we have a progressive argument from the idea that God is an existence to one that God is a necessary and perfect intelligent existence of being. And that He is the cause of all things inclusive of Existance except for Himself.
The only thing that was not considered was the fact of his infinity and man’s finiteness of being.
Man lives in a finite state of existence.
The best way to define this is in the fact that we live in state of existence of a beginning and end. All that is finite has a beginning and end. And that includes all things of existence or being. And all that can be conceived is finite even our thoughts. Every thought has a beginning and end. One more thing, wherever we know of an end we know there must be a beginning. All that we know that has a beginning must have an end.
God, though, always was; God always is; and God always will be. And what can be said of the God that always was can be said of God that always is. And what can be said of God that always will be can be said of God that always is too. Thus if anything that effects one it would effect the others also. That is one basis which we can use to view Him as a Triunity. Therefore, not only would God be the first Cause He would also have to be the first Effect by the nature of His being and existance.
Now, boy, can you think of anything that would make God the first Effect?"
That really got me to thinking and I could not think of anything. Can you?
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